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How We Got the New List


A Saturday Rant 5-15-99

I've been asked to recount the events of the past few days, if for no other
reason than to record this as part of our community's history.

When host Michael Frasse posted on Wednesday that he was going to take the
list down on Friday, I was very concerned that that Gundry would "win" and
our group would simply disappear; especially when the vulture came
un-cloaked and appeared on the list exhorting us to abandon ship and join
her crew. Thus, I immediately posted that I would be willing to administer a
new list if no one else wanted to. However, I knew that Gundry would have a
field day with that arrangement and that there would be some people who
would not be comfortable with someone as controversial as I "having the
power."

Later Wednesday afternoon I got a private message from Michael Thompson.
saying that he was interested in running the list and would I support him.
What you don't know is that Michael and I had a huge disagreement about his
stand with respect to the Gundry list and had many, many private exchanges
(some of them rather heated) on the subject, finally agreeing to disagree. I
wrote him back that I didn't have a big objection if he ran the list.

A few hours later, Shel Horowitz posted that he wanted to run the list. Here
was a man who had publicly called for my banishment in from the old PMA list
because of my Rants. I was not too comfortable with the idea of Shel having
"the power," however, I have "known" him for years, have reviewed his books
in this space, and while I disagree with him on a wide range of subjects, I
think he is a man of honor. He pulled himself off of the Gundry list (was
not booted) and probably lost a fair sized amount of business for doing so.
I wrote him privately about that, exclaiming my gratitude, and maybe I
posted something similar in a Rant; I don't remember.

Wednesday PM I heard from Mayapriya Long. She was also interested in running
the list saying that Michael, Shel, and me were too "contentious" and that
perhaps people would relate better to her, or a woman, or whatever. I
encouraged her because I don't know of anyone on the list, nor in all of
publishing for that matter, who has more "legitimacy" in this biz than
Mayapriya Long. Everyone likes her, everyone admires her, she has no enemies
and she is, in the opinion of those who know, one of the top 20 book
designers in the United States (and has the clients to prove it... a mix of
large prestigious houses, and small high-quality presses.)

On Thursday AM, when I read all the "panic" notes on the list, I realized
that we had to act fast or that the group would splinter. Thus, I proposed,
in a letter to Michael T., that we use his list (already set up as
pub-forum) and that he share moderator chores with me, Shel, and Mayapriya.
He wrote back about five minutes later and enthusiastically agreed. I called
Mayapriya and she also agreed that this would be a good thing. I then called
Shel. We had a long chat and while he had a few concerns, on the whole he
was supportive and agreed to throw in with us after we reviewed the rules
together.

The four of us started a marathon of e-mails about who would announce what,
who would do what, how the web page should look, what it should say, etc.
And it was SO easy. It was like the four of us had been working with each
other for years. There were no problems, no difficult issues or anything. We
all just "got along" and trusted each other.

The big job, to my mind, was to convince the readership that this concept
would work. But we had good arguments in that "the power" would not be in
any one person's hands, that any decision to ban someone would have to be
unanimous and that we would always act in the best interests of the
readership community. I think it helped that all of us are well known by the
community and I can't underestimate the "strength" of Mayapriya's presence.
I got several letters from women saying that her being an administrator made
a big difference in how they felt about the new list.

Well, I just crossed my fingers and hoped that people would appreciate the
work the four of us had done (I'm sure that all of us got nothing else
accomplished on Thursday) and that people would see the rationale of the
"new" Pub-Forum.

And they did.

I said it before and I want to just make brief mention of it again. I had
just a small part in all of this. I think that everyone owes Michael,
Mayapriya, and Shel a great big "thank you" for making this all happen.
These are three fine people who will do a good job for all of us. I'm
honored to be associated with each of them.

AND OUT OF THE DARKNESS...

The wound was still fresh when who runs up to the scene of the accident but
Pat Gundry, passing out business cards like any self-respecting
ambulance-chasing lawyer would do. In three months she never posted one word
to our community. For a while some thought that she was signed on as Patrick
Smith, who came on to beat me up about something or other, but it was never
proven and as soon as the allegation spread, Patrick Smith unsubscribed.

For those who are reading this on the various internet sites that this piece
appears in, here is a tad of history.

When PMA decided to close their online forum last February, Pat Gundry was
handed the list by the PMA Executive director. I don't know if Pat paid for
it or what the deal was, but I'm sure it was pretty shady. She kept it at
the same server and I have no idea if she is paying the bill or if we (PMA)
still is.

Anyway, she pre-banned me and Mayapriya Long by taking our names off the
subscriber list before "her" list came up, and not allowing us to subscribe
to the new list. She can deny it all she wants, but I have the documentation
which resulted as part of the research we have been doing on the legal
action in Federal court our company is initiating against her as well as
PMA.

A petition was started to "protest" the banning of Ms. Long and me. Everyone
who signed that petition or who posted to the list on the issue was
immediately dropped from the list. It numbered into the hundreds. Thus,
blossomed Pub-Forum... a list dedicated to the open discussion of issues
without the threat of censorship or heavy-handed moderation. (Pub-Forum came
into being when PMA closed their list the first time for a few weeks last
November, but only had a few subscribers.)

So Gundry posts to pub-forum in its waning hours, exhorting everyone to come
to her Publish-(hel)L list. I can't think of anyone in the entire publishing
industry who is more vilified than Pat Gundry of Suitcase Books. And I can't
think of anyone who deserves the reputation she has more than she does. And
while she claims there are 500 people on her list, this has never been
verified and I'm told that there are usually only about eight or nine posts
a day, mostly by the same people. The posts I've seen are mostly of the "how
do I get an ISBN" type. And they have to be, since she does not allow any
controversy or issue oriented material on her list. I heard today that she
posted a "call for topics" that she would "allow" each week where discussion
would ensue. I have no doubt that the first person who says something that
Pat Gundry disagrees with will be booted from her list.... at least that has
been her past history. It's her concept of "ethnic cleansing." Why the
so-called 500 people stay on that list is beyond me, but I'm not on it, so I
can't accurately judge. All I know is that most of the industry "experts"
are on Pub-Forum where there is unlimited (well almost) freedom to say what
you want, about anything you want, and about anyone you want.

The biggest irony is that as soon as the old list closed down at noon on
Friday, one of the first posts to the new list was from Pat Gundry, again
trying to twist history of her past actions. On the first day of HER list,
two of the moderators of the new Pub-Forum were not allowed to post at all,
because we were banned. Yeah, that IS irony. Well, Gundry has just as much
right to be on Pub-Forum as anyone else, to say what she wants, and to
co-exist with us in our community. Too bad most of us don't have the same
rights on her list. It sort of tells you something, doesn't it.

AND WHAT IF...

One final lesson from this week that you might want to take with you. The
new list came up quickly because four people exercised strong and decisive
leadership. We made a plan, took a risk, and were not afraid to fail. What
if PMA had similar leadership? What if PMA had a group of officers who could
stand up and talk to Ingram about returns. What if PMA had a group of
officers who would sit down with Mr. Reggio of B&N and talk about discounts
and payment terms. What if PMA had a board that was elected by the
membership and which had a mandate to change things, not just go along with
them. Michael T., Shel, Mayapriya, and myself were not afraid of taking a
chance or of doing "something" without endless studies, discussion, and
meetings. We all thought that if it didn't work and if people didn't join
the list, well... at least we tried. Just once I would like to see PMA try.
Just once.

THANKS

Finally, to our past list hosts, Michael and Karen Fraase., I'm sure I speak
for all of us when I say "thank you for the use of the hall." If the four of
us do half as good a job as you have done, we will have succeeded. We all
wish you well in whatever endeavor you follow and hope you will drop in on
our community from time to time and let us know what you are up to. We thank
you and we will miss you. If it were not for you, "we" would not be here
today. You "saved" the community last February, and all of us owe you a huge
debt of gratitude.

Alan N. Canton
Adams-Blake Co.
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